If you have read my latest posts on nightgame, you have surely picked up on the fact that I’m not a hardcore nightgamer (better to say “was not” considering that I wrote nightgame off).
When I was going out at night to meet girls, I was manly applying the daygame principles to nightgame: going out alone, frequenting venues that made it possible to talk to girls rather than shout at them (i.e. bars instead of nightclubs), aiming at getting some solid phone numbers and meeting the girls again at a future date. At times I also went for direct pulls, but very rarely, considering that I prefer slightly longer relationships to One-Night Stands, and that direct pulls were too much work for my liking since girls were always in a group.
I reached that way of operating after extensive experimentation, and all in all it was the one which worked best for me, based on my personal preferences (main reason) and the environment where I live (secondary reason). Feel free to look at the index of the Game section for the list of all posts on nightgame.
Based on my experience, these are some common mistakes guys need to be careful of. The initial ones are applicable to every nightgame strategy, the ones in the second section are mainly applicable to guys having a nightgame strategy similar to mine, while the ones in the final section relate to mindset.
Going out with the wrong people
As we saw here, there are some drawbacks to going out alone at night. Fact is, going out with the wrong people has even more drawbacks, and this is why I flew solo most of the time. Most guys I know, and I assume most guys you know as well, range from “not very good with women” to “lost causes”.
For the Lost Causes, approaching a girl either sober or tipsy is just unconceivable. If you are with them and you mention you are going to approach a group of girls and bring them over, they tell you they will run away if you do so. If for some unspecified reasons they happen to be in a conversation with a girl they don’t know, their “game” consists of offering drinks, paying compliments in a pedestalising way, playing the clown role to entertain them, etc. In the best-case scenario they “just” end up asking boring questions and talking about boring topics, which is way better than all the previous things, but still… When around women, especially girls they are attracted to, Lost Causes resemble the behaviour of high-school teenagers who don’t really know what to do with girls. Going out with them to meet girls is clearly a no-go.
Nice Guys who are not very good with women are one step better already. For them approaching a girl sober at night is not capital sin, actually they wish they were able to do it, but they are just too shy and often (always?) talk themselves out of the approach (as a matter of fact daygame is still complete taboo for them). If a typical Nice Guy was ready to listen and take action, I would be very happy to bring him with me and get him started. My brother is very much in this category, and when he came here to visit me, we went out at night and it worked great: I was the one pinging girls at the bar and breaking the ice with them, and then I included him in the conversation. He’s not a Lost Cause, he’s just a bit shy on the approach but he’s fine talking with girls steering clear of boring topics, and he doesn’t do silly things like offering drinks to strangers who may disappear at any time. Based on my experience though, most Nice Guys are just a drag, they make me nervous as a result, and I just don’t go out with them.
Then we have Try-Hards and guys playing provider game, both of which are best avoided, and finally the uncalibrated guys who make you ashamed of being associated with them due to their behaviour, which goes from catcalling girls to blatantly scanning them from head to toe, etc.
Interacting with girls and moving things forwards is not easy to start with, and there is absolutely no need to include a difficulty coefficient by going out with the wrong people. Maybe you have a cool friend or a Nice Guy who is not a drag, and this is good for you. But otherwise, you are better off going out alone.
I don’t have any issue going out with guys from any of the above categories just to have a lads night, during which we don’t care about girls and we have fun our own way. But if I go out to meet girls, I do things seriously, and I don’t accept any excuses, any neediness, any submissiveness, any pedestalization, any Nice Guy game, etc.
Feeding the attention whores
A few weeks back I was talking to an acquaintance of mine, and I was saying how when I was 18 I was spending three to four nights a week having sex with my then girlfriend in the car, raising my doubts on the sex habits of the new generation of 18-year-old folks, who are undoubtedly distracted by their parallel life in the virtual world, by all the notifications, etc. He said something like:
I don’t know, the young girls seem to be dressed so provocatively, I assume they are having a lot of sex.
And I remember thinking:
He’s more hopeless that I thought!
This should come as no surprise if you have done a few approaches, either in daygame or nightgame, but the more provocatively a girl is dressed, the more she is interested in your attention only rather than in you. Girls thrive on male attention, and in this day and age the main reason girls go out at night is to get some male validation and a nice ego boost. This is why two girls start dancing sexually in the middle of the dancefloor, possibly making out at times, only to reject each and every man who gets close: they wanted to feel admired and desired, and after a man has provided his attention, he becomes worthless in their eyes.
Attention-seeking women have some specific behaviours and a particularly artificial/snob/entitled vibe to them. Those traits are easy to recognise, so please don’t be one of the many thirsty dudes drooling over them as if they had a chance. Instead, just ignore them and focus your attention on more down-to-earth girls, who are likely to be more emotionally stable and may actually add some value to your life, rather than just extracting value from you. You may have read on the Internet that more conservatively dressed girls tend to be way hornier in the bedroom, and in my experience this is absolutely true: that’s because they are not broken inside, and they derive more pleasure from closeness and physical contact with a man, rather than from the sick mechanism of generating interest and then shut down whoever decided to act on that interest. Not only that, emotionally stable and more conservatively dressed girls tend to be way better human beings overall, hence ignore the attention whores and go talk to the sweet feminine girls instead.
Spending the night with a dead end
One night I reached a classy bar towards the end of the night, as part of my Nightgame Quick Turnaround Method. The venue was crammed but looked sad as usual, with most people there clearly bored and unimpressed about life, spending time in static display.
After briefly interacting with some non-receptive girls, I then I pinged a group of two girls. One of them seemed very receptive to me, and we had the usual fun and light conversation, some very light dancing, the usual stuff. Based on how things were going, there seemed to be some interest on her side. I spent roughly 20 minutes with her, which is quite long for my standards, but I had decided to call it a night after finishing talking with her, hence I was not pressed for yet another venue change. Long story short, while her friend was talking to some other guys, I proposed her to “go take some fresh air” in order to make her put her cards on the table and see whether she was bluffing or not. And that’s when she said with an unimpressed expression:
Sorry, I cannot leave my friend on her own…
This is a classic excuse, and it contains the classic shift of responsibility from her to someone else, as if she really wanted to but there were some external circumstances blocking her. Textbook material, unless you are only just starting and now you are thinking, “it was a shit-test!”. No, it wasn’t a shit-test at all, she just wasn’t interested in moving things forward with me, and maybe she had never been interested but at the same time didn’t mind a little entertainment there at the bar. And she structured her excuse in a way to absolve herself of any responsibility for that decision, in order to avoid any possible conflict.
No big deal, I only lost the 20 minutes spent talking with her, and actually it was quite pleasant to talk with a bubbly girl in the middle of that boredom fair in the venue. But still, this shows how important it is to escalate things and make the girl show her hand as soon as possible, to understand whether she’s actually interested in you or just in your attention/company for the night out. Can you imagine a guy who had met that girl at the beginning of the night, had spent the night with her, all the way thinking he was on the right track, only to uncover her bluff at the end of the night, just before going back home empty-handed? Terrible indeed.
To understand whether she’s interested in you or whether she considers you as part of the venue’s entertainment, after you have built some comfort you start escalating things and demanding investment from her little by little. This can be proposing a future meet-up and then leaving if you are using the Nightgame Quick Turnaround Method, or asking her to move somewhere else with you in the venue with a plausible excuse. If after you have built some comfort she doesn’t follow your lead, then you have just called her out on her bluff, and you proceed to next her.
Occasionally, I spent some time with larger groups of girls with whom I knew I wouldn’t have gone anywhere, and I did so just to build some positive vibes for the evening and for life in general, since I like talking with Sweet Girls even if I don’t find them attractive. But one-on-one interactions are very different, since when I talk one-on-one to a girl it usually means I’m interested in her, and as such I start escalating things and demanding investment little by little to clarify her real intentions.
*** *** ***
The following common mistakes are mainly related to guys going out alone, who are possibly using the Nightgame Quick Turnaround Method, and who are fairly aligned with my way of thinking.
Playing the James Bond role for too long
I always started pinging girls as soon as I entered the venue, casually and effortlessly every time, but still making sure to reduce the time spent before striking up the first conversation to a bare minimum.
Fact is, the longer you wait to start talking with people there, the more awkward it will feel once you finally go for it. It’s ok to take some breaks between one conversation and the other, but just make sure you don’t spend so much time steady that you start looking like part of the bar furniture. If there really are no viable targets, it’s time to change venue.
Keep hitting on girls there after getting a solid phone number
The thing to consider here is that girls in the real world behave different from what they are described to behave by most guys online. If you click with a girl, you agree to meet up again at a future date, you exchange numbers, and after you have said goodbye you start hitting on other girls there while she can see you, she’s absolutely not going to be impressed by that. She will label you as a “player” who hits on every girl and treats them all like commodities, and contrary to what you read online, this behaviour is not very well seen by emotionally healthy girls in the real world. Hitting on other girls there in the venue while she can see you is pretty much like taking that solid phone number she gave you and burn it: there is no point in doing that really.
After you have taken a solid phone number, it’s time to go: if you remain with her there is the risk of either making a mistake or turning a good interaction into a stale one, while if you stay there in the venue you can either make a mistake from the distance or maybe the situation will just look awkward. Hence, you take a solid phone number and go.
Changing venue with the girl
I consider this a big mistake. Let’s consider this: you are in a bar, either alone or with a friend. You approach two girls there and things seem to be going well. At some point they propose to change venue and go dancing together. What do you reply?
I think it all depends on what you are trying to achieve for the night. If you love nightlife and dancing, no matter what happens with girls in general, then go for it, you may have a lot of fun. The result is not guaranteed, but it doesn’t matter since you would have gone dancing even if you were on your own.
But for most people under most circumstances, I’d say take a solid phone number from one of the two girls, wish them well for the rest of the night, and part ways. When you have some experience, you understand fairly quickly whether a girl is looking for a hook-up, or just for some ordinary fun out in the city at night. All the direct pulls which I successfully executed (not many by the way) didn’t need any venue change, since from the bar we moved directly to my place, always doing so with a plausible excuse, of course. Most of the time it was to “show her my apartment”, and the funniest one was to “show her the plants in my lounge”. The latter was a particularly interesting case, since the girl was obviously DTF from the get-go, but still, she needed a plausible excuse to come home with me, in order for her to later be able to say, “it just happened” and feel less slutty. At some point we started talking about the plants in my lounge, I don’t remember how that happened, and I invited her to “come over and see them”. What would have happened once at my place was clear to both of us, but I remember her distinctly saying in a very serious way:
If when we arrive at your place there are no plants in your lounge, I will kill you.
Luckily I actually had some plants at my place, hence after quickly looking at them and making sure that her plausible deniability for what brought her there was in place, we moved to the bedroom.
A venue change and some dancing is never needed when the girl is looking for sex that night, you can build the required comfort wherever you first met her, without going to a nightclub. Based on my experience, when girls invite you to join them to go dancing, they are only looking for some company for the night (sexless company that is).
I made that mistake twice, once it was my fault, another time I was in Moscow and it was my friend’s fault, since he was speaking in Russian with the two girls and they planned it all (“my” girl was able to speak English with me, but that decision was taken by the three of them in Russian). In both examples, the most successful outcome would have been to get a solid phone number after the dancing session, since none of those girls was looking for a hook-up that night. In the first example I managed to get that solid phone number after some pointless time spent at the nightclub. In the second case in Moscow it was a little disaster, and since I got bored I actually left that group of three (my friend plus the two girls) and I got a solid phone number from another girl in the venue: as a result of my actions, I burned my chances with the initial girl I had met in the previous venue, and this was due simply to a strategic mistake done by friend.
Guys, don’t change venue with the girls, especially if they propose to do so, since you are clearly following their lead in that case. Instead, take their phone number, wish them to have fun, and ping them the day after in the afternoon/evening. If they don’t reply, you were going to waste your time with them anyway. This is even more true if you, like me, prefer slightly longer relationships to hook-ups.
Offering dinks to girls
I consider this another big mistake. In my four/five months of nightgame activity, I only offered a drink to a group of two girls who I approached on the street with my nightgame street opener, and who I then invited to continue our conversation in a bar. The two girls were clearly looking for a hook-up, but in the end it didn’t happen, simply because the other girl didn’t manage to find a guy for the night, and it was the case of either both of them having the hook-up or nothing. Still, I took a solid phone number from “my” girl, and for a series of circumstances I saw her again long time afterwards.
Other than that, I never offered any drink to any girl during those months of nightgame. My personal rule is very simple: I offer a drink to a girl who is in a date with me; no drinks offered before our date, and absolutely no dinner before sex.
The reality is that for one sweet and well-intentioned girl, there are X girls, where X is greater than one, who are just looking for some free drinks or some free food, since they are “clearly entitled” to that. They think they deserve the princess treatment, even if I’m not quite sure why… Hence, I screen for sweet girls to go out with, and during the screening process I don’t offer anything.
This summer I had a FWB who was extremely sweet and a really a good girl (I’m talking good as a person, not chaste, since she was actually very horny in the bedroom). I had sex with her on the fifth date, since she was extremely shy to start with and needed to warm up little by little, and during our first four dates she never even attempted to reach for her wallet when there was something to pay (i.e. drinks, cinema, etc). After our friendship had become sexual, once we also went for dinner together after spending the afternoon at my place, and I had no problem in paying the entire bill, since as I said she was sweet and a good person. That arrangement was absolutely fine by me, and this is actually the standards situation when I go to Russia. But I’m fine with that arrangement only if there is no entitlement, no diva attitude, and no opportunistic intentions on the other side.
[side note: if the girl proposes to pay every now and then, I don’t mind it either; if the girl during the afternoon/evening leading to sex rigorously makes sure that she pays an entire bill after you have done so just before, like you pay for the hot chocolates in the afternoon and she wants to pay for the glasses of wine before dinner, then you pay for the not-so expensive dinner at the pizzeria and she insists to pay the drinks at the bar just before going to your place, keep in mind that she is doing so because she already knows you won’t see her ever again after that night of sex]
Me offering something is not a given, and until I have made sure the girl is a good person, and she’s interested in me rather than in the material goods I can offer, until then I don’t offer anything to anyone. And since my screening mechanism is quite tough, if she makes it to the first date, then she deserves a drink :)
*** *** ***
These are mainly mindset issues.
Not going out
Here the problem is that the excuse-generating part of your mind convinces you to procrastinate in order to avoid situations in which your ego may get bruised. This happens to everyone, and the best thing to do is forcing you to go out and face your fears.
One practical thing you can do is making sure you are in decent conditions when it’s time to go out, and this is especially important if you are going out alone. Hence, tiring activities during the day are best avoided, since otherwise you will feel sleepy when it’s time to go out, and this is a real excuse which goes on top of the made-up excuses generated by your mind as a defence mechanism. Also, better not to spend the entire day in front of the computer, otherwise you will feel like your mind is on a different planet when the time finally comes to go out, and you absolutely won’t be in the mood. I’ve experienced both cases in first person.
The best thing to do is to have a quiet yet sociable day, an early dinner followed by a little rest, and then hit one of the early evening bars between 9PM and 10PM.
Going out but not entering the venues
This happened to me when I became more experienced, and it had nothing to do with approach anxiety or social fear. It was driven by the fact that I already knew what I could have expected from that venue, and I didn’t like it. The mechanism is the same one behind the fact that some daygamers, after having done a good number of approaches, know that most of them will lead nowhere, there will be a few weird looks, a few dismissive rejections, a few girls with boyfriends, some flaking, etc. And as a result, they just get fed up by all that and stop approaching altogether.
Different people deal with this issue in different ways. In my specific example, I wrote off nightgame altogether, since I don’t like nightlife to start with, and I had had enough of trying to meet new girls in the night scene.